Meyerin ohje erilaisten miekkailijoiden kohtaamiseen

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Meyerin ohje erilaisten miekkailijoiden kohtaamiseen

Viesti  Killanvanhin lähetetty To Kesä 13, 2013 7:45 am

Fechtmeister Joachim Meyer writes quite extensively about 4 types of fighters and how to face them. For me this makes Meyer much more interesting than the older treatises as he, unlike most earlier "German" sources, teaches us that there is not one single way to approach an opponent, as it depends on both his and your personality, training and physique. This also means we have to change our approach depending on what type of fighter we face.

Interesting to note is that most of his stücken are examples of how to fight the 4th type of fighters: the fools or the especially sharp who "position themselves in a guard and wait thus for their opponent's device".

From Dr. Forgeng's translation:

"Therefore I should also say something here about the qualities of people, who in this art of combat can naturally be divided in to four categories, and thus four kinds of combatants are to be found based on diligent observation. Now so that you may have an introduction to reflect usefully about these, I will firstly ennumerate them to you, and then offer a short lesson and precept how you shall conduct yourself against each of them.

And the first are those who, as soon as they can reach the opponent in the Onset, at once cut and thrust in with violence. The second are somewhat more moderate, and do not attack too crudely, but when an opponent has fully extended with a cut, fallen low with his weapon, or else has bungled in changing, they chase and pursue rapidly toward the nearest offered opening. The third will only cut to the opening when they not only have it for certain, but have also taken heed whether they can also recover from the extension of the cut back into a secure parrying, or to the Defence Stoikes; I also mostly hold with these, although it depends on what my opponent is like. Now the fourth position themselves in a guard and wait thus for their opponent's device; they must be either fools or especially sharp, for whoever will wait for another person's device must be very adept and also trained and experienced, or else he will not accomplish much.

Now as the first ones are violent and somewhat stupid, and as they say, cultivate frenzy; the second artful and sharp; the third judicious and deceitful; the fourth like fools; so you must assume and adopt all four of them, so that you can deceive the opponent sometimes with violence, sometimes with cunning, sometimes with judicious observation, or else use foolish comportment to incite him, deceive him, and thus not only betray him concerning his intended device, but also make yourself room and space for the opening, so that you can hit him that mu ch more surely.
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for when someone thus violently storms in at you with cutting and thrusting, you shall always meet him in the Longpoint or Straight Parrying, and at first somewhat yield and give way to him, yet such that nonetheIess you bear out and send away from you all cuts and thrusts. Then just when he becomes tired, careIess, or overconfident, and you perceive your opportunity, pursue him quickly and judiciously. For the more you yield, the more violent he becomes, and the easier you can get your advantage over him-yet such that you yourself do not let yourself be forced out of your advantage with this. For anyone who cuts violently will be inclined to overcommit to his cut.
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Now against those who will not attack so violently in the Before, but will take heed to attack close behind the opponent's Before, position yourself in the Onset in one of the guards; then change before him judiciously from one guard into another, and offer him one opening after the other, yet such that your point always remains before him, as I have said concerning changing off. Then as soon as he thrusts or cuts at you during this, fall upon it with setting off or suppressing, and rush at once to the opening he has presented.
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Against the third fighter practise thus: When you observe that your opponent will not cut first, nor rush to the opening before he has it for certain, then position yourself in the Onset in the Side Guard or in the Change. Remain a little while in it, as if you intended to wait for his devices;but then go back up from the lower guard, and act as if you intended to change into the High Guard;when you almost have come into the High Guard, then rapidly tum your weapon for the stroke; before he realizes it, cut through rapidly to the nearest opening with extended arm, so that you make yourself open again. Without doubt he will quickly cut at this opening, since you have presented it to him thus with a sudden stroke.
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As far as regards how to act against the fourth combatants, you will find that throughout in the previously taught devices."

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Killanvanhin
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Ja kuinka irtautua terään tarttumisesta...

Viesti  Killanvanhin lähetetty To Kesä 13, 2013 7:25 pm

Hartikainen kirjoitti:From the 16th century anonymous Bolognese text, instructions on how to proceed if your opponent tries to grab or grabs your blade.
 
This is one of the c. 560 instructions on how to use the sword without an accomppanying sidearm, and also a good example of the fierce, martial nature of the style. While some of the material in the Anonimo seems to be full of flourish, there is a direct side to style as well where grappling, knees and kicks are not unknown.
 
If in any way you find yourself with crossed swords with your enemy and he wishes to make a hold with his left hand of your sword, you cautiously finding yourself with either foot forward, at the time when he wishes to take the hold, gather backwards the foot that is in front, turning a mandritto to the hand with which he imagines to make the hold, or to the sword hand. And so likewise take heed that should you perhaps wish to grab his sword, he can turn a mandritto to the said hand. But should it arise that indeed he grabs a hold of your sword with the said left hand, you can immediately push the sword towards his body, like you wanted to stab the sword to his waist, and then with the greatest vigor and force give a pull towards yourself, in which way you can easily free the sword from the hand, perhaps not without great harm to his hand. But if perchance this plan turns to be in vain, and he wishes to attack with his sword, you can make an act of throwing yourself forward, and with your left hand grab his where you best can. Or you can entangle with him in a grapple and force him to fall to the ground. You can also grab the blade of your sword with your left hand and give it a turn with both hands in a way that is most convenient for you in order to free the sword from his hand. You can also tangle the foot against his will, or you can give a knee or a kick to his testicles with all of your strength, and having him regaining his senses I think the sword will soon be free.
 
Translated from the Anonimo Bolognese, page 144r. The image shows a blade grab from Fiore dei Liberi's 1409 treatise.

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Vs: Meyerin ohje erilaisten miekkailijoiden kohtaamiseen

Viesti  Killanvanhin lähetetty Pe Toukokuu 09, 2014 7:02 am

Reading Ann Tlusty's book on Martial Ethics in Early Modern Germany, it is interesting to note what great importance the Renaissance society put on intent over consequences in any violent encouter. Consequently, in some cases it was even considered worse to thrust at someone even *without* harm, than killing someone with a strike. The thrust was really considered very dishonourable and the traces of that probably remained throughout the German fencing with the Hiebfecthen.

And again, how very relevant the strike with the flat was in a street fight, as that again proved your intent to not do harm and trying to avoid escalating things. All this certainly puts the art of Joachim Meyer in a very interesting light. Exactly what it means and how it relates to the teachings of the fencing guilds still needs to be researched.

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Vs: Meyerin ohje erilaisten miekkailijoiden kohtaamiseen

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